Interviewee: Stacey Ornstein
“Allergic to Salad”
After-school program in NYC public schools
95% funded from NYC partnership & government
Q&A
WARM UP [Athia]
What was the “a-ha!” moment for yourself that prompted you to design Allergic to Salad? (Athia) - know there’s a story part in their website, but wanted to hear how that pivotal moment got connected back to learning
I was working in art education (background) → working with high school students who want to go to art program
worked with nonprofit
ordering lunch
growing frustrations → not healthy, diabetes
Break away from art edu, took a few years working with a food nonprofit organization
How has your experience with your own children inspired your work with Allergic to Salad? (Zoe)
Now not in the class as much but typically in the classroom:
The students came in and thought like “these foods are disgusting”
Parents came back → “I have no idea that the kids can eat this”
What key values or principles drive Allergic to Salad as an organization/program? I.e. (“learning should be fun” or “collaboration”)
Be very honest with them
you don’t have to like everything
When the students said “Oh! it’s gross”.
That’s unfortunate. It’s your hard work.
Cooking is a sci experiment when you get to eat the result
can go back to look at mistakes
What kind of new direction were you looking for? What prompted you to initiate something new? (Sauda)
Can you think of any classes that went particularly well and what happened in them? Maybe a favorite lesson or meal of yours/the students? (Lena)
I was like “Ooh! Everything that lights up and sparkling is cool.”
When it comes to things that get into circuits/tools → hard to me to talk about it
when creating a curriculum (for middle school students)…
difficult in between but overall simplicity is the best
clear and simple
some of the bigger concepts might be too difficult for middle school kids
science kit → parents are likely to sign up
What kind of strategies do you use to get the students who might not be interested in the topic? (Tina)
Can you describe what happens when a student has an “a-ha!” moment
Is there something particular that you have found that gets them to that place of willingness to be open to discovery? (Stefanie K)
Context [Sauda]
Can you share a bit about how you brought Allergic to Salad/Rad Salad Lab to your partner sites? (Shengli)
We had a curriculum that we created (STEM)
made observations along the way
follow the steps
always make sure that it’s exciting for students
We have a team
Something we want to pass on is that, it’s okay to explore these things
sometimes the kids get bored when we start small
“they don’t want to only cut things → want to bake and cook”
having something to take-home
people are motivated by rewards
very simple circuit → paper, battery, simple conductive tape → bracelets
all the kids wear it → sparks conversation at home
Things that are hands-on
Have you ever run into any constraints by the school and how did you work around them? (Lena)
What kinds of cooking tools do you use and are you generally happy with them? (Selin)
Are there any technologies that you’ve come across recently that you hoped could be applied/used in your classroom? (Selin)
Keep it very basic
things that they can find in their house
during covid → we just gonna do it in the pantry, no grocery shopping
use a coffee cup to measure
What have the family classes been like for you?
What kind of social support do the students typically find helpful?
What kind of factors attracted parents to get their children involved/continue in the program? (Sauda)
Community event
usually upgrade the recipe
“you can take cream and make butter/whip cream”
learning to do dicing
showcase to parents that there is something
family presentation → how it translates to their own home
bracelet → might be exciting for the kid but the parents might feel like “there’s a paper bracelet that lights up”…
How do you know that the recipes/lessons are “easy” enough for kids - and their parents/adults in the room to follow? (Athia)
Or the opposite: Something that you’d thought would be easy but turns out it wasn’t
Do the kids come into the class for one or two sessions or are there a retention program? I’d imagine when partnering with schools then there will be a consistent stream of students that participate, but what about the online classes (Athia)
Will your new program fit into the same structure of after school programs or will it be different?(Sauda)
I think it can either go to after school or in the school day
after school
aim for 45 minutes
challenge: when there are too many activities in 45 minutes
still making the students interested in the topics
also hard to think about one activity that would take the whole 45 minutes
Learning while doing
instead of teaching about carrots before the activity → talk about it when the kids chop carrots
How do you choose the subjects of the classes regarding the one hour constraint that you have? Are there any contents that can take more than one class to teach?
How did you consider the culture inclusiveness of the design? For example, the name of the vegetable may be different in different regions? (Eva)
It’s impossible to include all but we try to make it regionally
learn more about the dishes in history
switch it up - Egypt, South America, etc.
What did you find missing in your program that you hope to fill up in your new one? What are the important factors for you with this new initiative? (Sauda)
Curriculum [Gabriela]
What is your process for balancing the cooking part of the curriculum with the STEM part? Are there certain basic STEM concepts that get covered in every cooking class? What are they? (Stefanie K)
Research Questions:
How can we now connect this to the STEM concept?
In what standpoint do we want to talk about it?
Fitting the puzzle pieces together
How do you choose the recipes that you are going to use? (Gabriela)
What skills or concepts or experiences do you want the kids to walk away with after a class? (Stefanie K)
Are there any tangible tools used in the class for teaching STEM related topics? What are they? (Chloe H)
Can you walk us through the process of designing the curriculum and critical/major iterations in design decisions that you’ve made since the beginning of this program vs today? (Athia)
How do you find your inspirations for the concepts each course conveys? Is there a general agenda for the concepts?(Shuang)
Was there any time when you got requests, insights or inspirations from the students that had been applied to the curriculum? (Ploy)
When the students asked, “when are we going to do roasted chicken, steak, hamburger?”
Teach the techniques that they can use for cooking those dishes instead
Listen to the students → just knowing what they like
If everyone is doing one thing and only one person has to finish a task might not be a good way for learning
that’s why we don’t use a typical blender (pressing button) but a handheld one that they can pass to the next person
How do you prepare your educators for each class?
What do you look for from the educators in your program? How will that tie in with your new project - as in what kind of educators do you envision for the new team? (Sauda)
have flexibility
people who work in the restaurants
public health
education
community gardeners
worked in school cafeteria
try to get people from all over NYC → getting a large representatives of all communities
prioritize “working with kids” > cooking skills
Learner / Audience Analysis [Lena]
I noticed that you use a culturally wide range of recipes in your classes. In addition to using the recipe to highlight a culture, what supplemental materials (if any) do you use to give more context or more information about the culture, and what are the goals for this? (Stefanie K)
Follow-up question: Navigating diverse cultural contexts for food could be a hard thing to scope, have you faced any situation where the cultural contexts became controversial? One superficial example – “this is not how usually my family would prepare it!” (Shuang)
Break the students into small groups
start with basic things → mixing
Adjusting autonomy
cutting
kindergarten: corder an apple → has a flat surface → easy for the students
5th grade: cut it in half
middle school: here’s the recipe → go do it
give the shopping list & ingredients
know what each student is capable of
Cultural context:
go around and talk about food in the context that each student’s familiar with
e.g. dumpling
cabbage
kimchi
like travel the whole globe talking about people’s food
Not “I don’t like it. It’s not how we do it.”
Instead: “I get it that it’s not traditionally correct. I’m so glad you brought that up. This is true, but we have a limited time.”
Be honest: will go back and do more research
What is something a designer might not expect of the students that would surprise us? (Lena)
Were there moments when students did something that you've never thought about? (Gabriela)
How are classes typically adapted for learners of different ages or experience levels? (Stephanie S)
Follow up to this question: did you define a different learning goal for younger vs relatively older students? (Athia)
How do you adapt lessons for various numbers of learners? (Lauren)
Which parts of learning seem to be the easiest/most fun for students? Why? Which parts do they least enjoy? Why? (Selin)
What interaction goals do you want to happen versus what actually happens?
Between the instructor and students
Students to other students/
students with their projects?
Do they match the interaction goals you come in with? (Kristina)
What kinds of needs are required by students in the cooking classes? (Vera)
How have you adapted classes for these learners in the past?
Challenges/Constraints [Selin]
While dealing with classes for kids itself is challenging enough, dealing with cooking/eating with kids sounds very challenging. There are allergies and restrictions on top of the dangerous stuff in the kitchen. We’d love to hear about your preparations. (Shuang)
What are some of the biggest challenges you face in designing and implementing the cooking classes? (Stephanie S)
Is there anything that you would do differently if you could go back? (Ploy)
How have you found your online classes are going? Have you received similar feedback from participants in your online vs. in-person classes? (Lauren)
Should we keep thinking about/planning for online versions of our activities?
“I will never do online class again”
Many people called us and said they prefer in-person and don’t want online classes.
If the materials are common enough that the students can find → can be potential
instructions and materials in virtual is difficult
problem about accessibility
Have you ever been in a situation where one student or a small group of students feel hard to follow the class ideas? How would you deal with that situation? (Tina)
Follow up/similar: what are the challenges in facilitating online sessions where there are students with different cooking abilities? (Shengli)
Do you have any go-to methods that mostly work well for students who struggle with the general curriculum? (Selin)
CLOSING [Helen]
Which projects from last year were more promising? Why?
What factors/elements do you want from your new initiative?
**Hands-on
things that have a final Wow! factor works very well
attract the kids
easy access to materials